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Post by jooyoungpark on Dec 3, 2012 7:34:08 GMT -5
The Doll's house consists of elements from the 19th century Europe, where women were down graded, and often had no rights. What are your thoughts in this idea of the 19th century Europe? Do you think it is right? Or wrong? What do you think of the women who don't really care about these ideas?
Personally, whether the idea is ethically wrong or correct, I think it is interesting how the women in the story do not care about how they are viewed lower than men.
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Post by lukejoo1092 on Dec 3, 2012 8:39:06 GMT -5
For me, I think it originated from the old stereotype that men are stronger than women proves that men are superior than women. But since the setting of the society was already set like that from the beginning, I think many of the women just followed along and didn't mind much about it. Of course there might have been a few who would have thought this wrong as we would today but the majority of people at the time might have thought that concept as totally natural.
Personally, I believe that women and men should be equally treated like today, being looked upon not by their gender but by their skills and capabilities.
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Post by nadiraamalina on Dec 5, 2012 6:05:06 GMT -5
Actually, women usually get lower salaries than men even if they have the same job and the same level of education and amount of experience, so even today women are still regarded as lower beings than men.
I think that women and men should be able to work wherever they want. Some women can be the ones who work and earn money for the family, and some men can stay at home, cook, take care of the kids and shop. It depends entirely on the person. Not all women enjoy cooking and not all men like sitting behind a desk all day. Actually, most men don't like sitting behind a desk all day.
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Post by KevinW on Dec 5, 2012 17:48:32 GMT -5
Some things have just been that way for so long, it's outright ingrained in children since they were young. If they see mom cooking and cleaning and hearing all the other girls they interact with recount the same, then that's how they will grow up to be (barring rarer exceptions). Young children are very impressionable, and for a pretty good reason, too; it was better to learn not to jump off a cliff by listening to an elder than by trying to jump. The trait of listening and imitating has good evolutionary value.
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Post by bilal15 on Dec 6, 2012 4:04:48 GMT -5
at that century which was 19th century woman didn't had respect well they did had some respect but not all women's job was only to take care of her husband, take care of her kids and take care of her house that was the main job of woman and if some women were able to have a job they wouldn't get the same amount of salary as the men would get just like nadira said, and in that century education was prohibited for women because then they will ask questions and interfere men and men don't want that.
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jisu25
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jisu25 on Dec 7, 2012 2:34:34 GMT -5
In the 19th century, men had authority and power over women when it came to make decisions. Women were looked down by the males because men had more pride than women. I think that is wrong because whether it is male or female, I think that it is appropriate that people should be equal without any problems of gender. I think that women, who do not follow mens' rule, are brave and have a very optimistic mind. There must have been many women in the past that followed the orders of men, however I think that there are women who might have not been doing as men are telling them to.
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Post by yeajinchoi on Dec 7, 2012 8:43:44 GMT -5
I don't think that the ideas of the 19th century are wrong, but like you said, I am shocked at how women in the 19th century doesn't get offended and just accept their low status. But in the end, I guess it's just a matter of what you THINK is right at the time. Like for example, (Ms. Boyd said this in class) in like 50 years from now, when the people of the future study our behaviors and ideas, they might think it was very unbalanced too. For us, it might be normal to live and accept the opposite gender in this way, but to other people in a different time period, that might not be the case. If they had the same amount of education as we do, then things would have been probably different.
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sorn
Full Member
Posts: 126
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Post by sorn on Dec 8, 2012 8:57:36 GMT -5
I also agreed with Yeajin that ideas of the 19th century are wrong but our world had just changed so much that it shocks us how much our society had now treated women different than before. Many things had changed so much and I don't think that it is fair for women to be treated like that. But I guess if I was in that time, it would be okay for me and I wouldn't had noticed anything bad about it because the society is also treating other women the same as me.
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Post by brandonina on Dec 8, 2012 21:32:19 GMT -5
I believe that women were certainly in a lower position than men. Like others said, no matter how wrong or right the society was shaped, people would've accepted the custom and just lived the way it is. In my opinion, there was definitely some point of time period where families determined the roles of women and men (probably women would've been better in chores ACCORDING to men). Since the idea of gender roles is hereditary, women in the 19th century would've just lived without challenging the idea. Men even considered women challenging wrong. I believe it is wrong though to treat women worse then men, which still happens in jobs these days. It would be very hard to change the perception of gender roles because they were shaped from long time ago.
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gb1708
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by gb1708 on Dec 9, 2012 1:12:07 GMT -5
If you compare now and 19th century, you will see the differentiation clearly. Now, women and men are "almost" equal. Women have every rights as men have. Thus, everything develop stronger because more brains are working. Now, you can see a lot of women are successful. So I believe that the equality between women and men are totally right and the idea of 19th is very dumb.
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james
Full Member
Posts: 129
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Post by james on Dec 9, 2012 4:11:03 GMT -5
I dont think the idea of treating women lower than men is wrong. It has been that way since a long long time ago. Because men are stronger than women, and in a long time ago strongness was like the authority, its just like a culture that has been passed down from our ancestors. Although i think that men who has very coercive attitude to women is wrong but as long as the idea is similar to a dolls house, i dont think its a wrong thing..
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Post by sergeyfen on Dec 9, 2012 4:33:48 GMT -5
I think treating women unfairly is wrong back then and even now. They way that women were treated back then was very horrible, but women did not do much either to stop it., seemed as they liked it, but anyways it was too much of unfair treatment. I kind of agree that women are weaker than men not in the sense of who is more powerful, ahh so hard to explain that,,hmm. Like these days lot of women not all women are just doing nothing. SOme women want husband to work and earn money so they can give them money, but if husband asks idk make a sandwhich she would be like what a sexist go make yourself one, isnt??? or maybe if wife asks husband to carry something heave and men rejects she would probably say what a man weak and stuff. I mean everything depends, right now some women simply dont do anything. But there are still women that are fair.
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Post by esther on Dec 9, 2012 5:20:29 GMT -5
If I'm in the point of view of the 19th century, I won't think that Nora's acts in the beginning of the play is wrong or weird. It would be absolutely normal that her life is based on her husband. Throughout the story, Nora gets more power because in the end of the story, Nora stops Torvald from talking, Which shows that Nora has more power. If people in the 19th century saw Nora's act at the end of the play, they would not be happy with what Nora did.
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Post by ExtremelyExtremeExtremist on Dec 9, 2012 8:15:05 GMT -5
It depends on what time period we live. Based on today¡¯s view, it is wrong. But if I lived during 19th century, I agree. Women have a right to enjoy same freedom as men enjoy. I think it¡¯s normal for women who lived during 19th century not to care about their own status. They strongly believed that they are weaker than men and they can¡¯t change the rule.
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Post by JustinK. on Dec 10, 2012 1:41:18 GMT -5
yup~ i agree. Women had absolutely no rights and were treated like children. It's sad how that concept was accepted at that time by both men and women. But, it's not really sad or depressing if that's how it's been throughout. Women haven't been able to experience what the men have been experiencing, therefore, the women aren't really suffering in a way.
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